By TOM WEAVER

Born on Long Island, New York, Picerni had aspirations to become an attorney until he acted in an eighth grade play and later learned that the school principal liked his performance and called him "a born actor." He subsequently appeared in little theater productions, then (after serving in the Air Force during World War II) on the stage at Loyola University. Picerni was acting in a play in Hollywood when he was spotted by Solly Baiano, head of talent at Warner Brothers; brought out to the studio, Picerni was given a role in Breakthrough (1950). This WWII actioner turned out to be aptly named, as it led to a Warners contract for Picerni and a long succession of roles at that studio. Best-known for his second banana role on the TV classic The Untouchables with Robert Stack, Picerni today is the father of eight and grandfather of 10.

TOM WEAVER: How did you land your co-starring role in House of Wax?

PAUL PICERNI: Brynie Foy was the producer and a fellow named Joe Breen was the associate producer. They were preparing House of Wax, and it was a big thing because this was the first time a major studio was doing a movie in 3-D. Just prior to that, I was tested for a part, kind of the second lead, in a picture called The Eddie Cantor Story [1953]. I tested for the part of this doctor, along with about 15 or 20 other actors. Finally [producer] Sid Skolsky called me into his office and he said, "I've got some bad news for you. We've decided to go with Arthur Franz in the part of the doctor." I was very disappointed,I was shattered, because I was really hoping to get that part.

Right across the street from Warner Brothers was a little drug store, and I walked over there with a friend of mine, [actor] George O'Hanlon. We were sitting there having a cup of coffee, and George was consoling me. All of a sudden, Joe Breen walked in. He had been the associate producer on Breakthrough, and I had become friendly with him. He said, "What the hell are you so down about, Picerni?" I told him that I had just lost the part, and he said, "Well, when you're down like that, there's only one way to go and that's up. I just found out that you're gonna play the romantic lead in House of Wax." That's the way I found out about getting that part. It was kind of a lesson that I always remembered, that when you're really down in the dumps, there's only one way to go and that's up! And that was way up for me, getting a lead in a picture like that.

Q: In January 1953, before House of Wax started shooting, you did 3-D tests with Vera Miles.

PAUL: I wanted her to get that part so badly. I tested with Vera, I assisted her on her test, and I just adored her,she was so gorgeous and such a nice girl. I didn't know Phyllis Kirk at that time, so I really was rooting for Vera to get the part. Phyllis ended up getting it, and she was fine, of course.

Q: Do you remember what other actresses might have tested for the female lead?

PAUL: I just remember Vera,I don't remember the others. But I did a lot of tests at Warner Brothers through the years. I tested with Jayne Mansfield and Mari Aldon and Mari Blanchard,a lot of actresses. I never did play a love scene in a movie, only in the tests [laughs]!

Q: When you were preparing for House of Wax, did they bother to show you the old movie it was a remake of?

PAUL: No, they never did. But I finally saw Mystery of the Wax Museum [1933] just a couple of months ago, a friend of mine brought a copy over to my house, and I looked at it. It was so old that I thought the Vincent Price version was a much better movie.

Q: What were your impression of Price during the making of House of Wax?

PAUL: Oh, Vince was just an angel,one of the most delightful people to work with, a very artistic man and very generous. Just a wonderful guy. I loved working with Vincent, and unfortunately that's the only time I ever had the opportunity.

Q: Andre de Toth told me he thought there was something "missing" about Price as an actor. He said Price had a "feminine" quality that kept him from achieving his potential.

PAUL: I wouldn't say a "feminine" quality; he had an artistic, gentle quality. You've met people in your life like that; they're just not De Niros, they're not ballsy kind of people, because of their background. A lot of Englishmen have that quality, and there were also actors who were brought up years ago in New England or in Main Line Philadelphia who had that quality that would almost give an impression of being effeminate.

Q: Frank Lovejoy, who plays the police lieutenant in House of Wax, was a good actor, but to me he seemed like a very unlikely type to get to be a star. What was he like?

PAUL: I first worked with Frank on Breakthrough. I was a young actor; as a matter of fact, the day I started Breakthrough was the day I graduated from Loyola University. My first scene on the picture was with Frank and a couple of other actors. We went through the rehearsal, and I had several big speeches in the scene. And Frank looked at me with a straight face and he said, "Is that the way you're gonna play it?" A thing went through my whole body saying, "Oh, my God I've failed!"

From that moment on, I never liked Frank. What a terrible thing to say to a young actor, "Is that the way you're gonna play it?" Now to this day I don't know if Frank was serious or if he was kidding,that's like a standard joke with actors, "Is that the way you're gonna play it?" But he said it so convincingly that I believed he really meant it! And for years, while we were both under contract to Warner Brothers, I never liked Frank. Then later on, when he did a series called Meet McGraw, I was cast in a guest part. We were on the set one day, and he made a face and he sat down and he said [in an out- of-breath voice], "Paul -- do me a favor, will you? In my dressing room -- on top of my dresser -- you'll find a little bottle of nitroglycerin pills. Go get 'em for me, will ya?" I looked at his face, and I could see that he was in pain, and so I rushed and got the nitroglycerin. He took a couple of tablets and he said, "Thanks a lot -- thanks -- " And at that moment, I suddenly liked Frank, I said to myself, "He's okay," because he trusted me enough to have me go get them, and not the assistant director or somebody else. But up until then, I always had this "thing" about him, ever since that opening remark.

I'll tell you one funny story about Frank,well, it's not really funny, it's kind of sad. Frank was moving up the ladder and finally he was cast as Joan Crawford's leading man [in Goodbye, My Fancy, 1951]. In those days, we always had big premieres for these pictures at the Warner Brothers Theater on Hollywood Boulevard; at this premiere, my wife and I and [actor] Dick Wesson and his wife were greeted by Gordon MacRae, who was on a little dais there, introducing the actors as they arrive. And now, finally, up pulls this limousine, and in the limousine is Joan Crawford, Frank Lovejoy and Frank's wife Joan Banks, who was a radio actress. The limousine pulls up and Gordon MacRae says, "And now, ladies and gentlemen, the stars of the film, Frank Lovejoy and Joan Crawford!" Frank gets out of the back door first; he reaches in and he says, "Joan -- "; and his wife, Joan Banks, puts her hand in his. And he casts it aside and says, "Joan -- ", and he pulls out Joan Crawford [laughs]! He's basking in the applause, in the limelight of the moment with Joan Crawford his leading lady, and he just leaves his wife Joan sitting there in the car! She climbs out by herself and she comes over to where Dick Wesson and I are standing with our wives and she says to us, "That son of a bitch, I'll kill him when we get home!" [Laughs] Frank was so dazzled by the glare of the lights and the "big moment" that he just neglected his wife!

Q: What memories of Charles Bronson, who played Vincent Price's deaf-mute henchman?

PAUL: When we made House of Wax, he was still Charles Buchinski. And, as you'll recall, Buchinski when he first started had a crew haircut, and he was built like a weightlifter,oh, a tremendous build. I think he got that from working in the coal mines in Pennsylvania. He wasn't very attractive,sunken cheekbones and all,so, for the part of this grotesque deaf-mute character, he was perfect! One day we were having lunch, just Charlie and I, in the Green Room, the Warner Brothers commissary. On the walls in the Green Room, they had pictures of all the contract players,Humphrey Bogart, Bette Davis, John Garfield and so on. Well, Charlie looked up at Garfield's picture. You remember John Garfield,he was a fine actor and a romantic lead, although he was offbeat looking. And Buchinski said to me, in a very quiet tone, "Someday I will play romantic leads like John Garfield." And I said to myself, "This guy's kidding himself! How the hell is he gonna play romantic leads with a face like that?" Well [laughs], I learned a lesson: He did become a leading man and did play romantic leads!

Q: Several years ago I tried to do an in-person interview with Andre de Toth about House of Wax, but at the restaurant he told me not to turn on my tape recorder. He said, "Just talk to me, and then later you write down your impressions of me and your impressions of what I said. That will be more interesting!"

PAUL: You know he's still alive? He's must be 90!

Q: He was an interesting old buzzard, but he wouldn't let me record our conversation!

PAUL: Oh, he's a devil,a devil [laughs]! He was an average director, I thought, or a good director, but -- he was kind of a sadistic individual. He loved to see people in danger, you know? I remember they were shooting the fire sequence, and he had Vincent Price walking through the flames rather dangerously, rather than use a double.

Q: Even though you weren't in the fire scene, you stopped by to watch it being filmed?

PAUL: Oh, yeah, because they were gonna burn down that little wax museum, and it was right there on the sound stage. And Vincent did most of the fire sequence himself. I still remember the scene where he runs through a doorway and the burning beams crash down behind him. Vincent did that himself,Andre de Toth enjoyed [watching the actors] doin' stuff like that! Now we come to the big fight sequence with me and Charlie Buchinski --

Q: That is such a great, scrappy, realistic fight. I just love it.

PAUL: Right! And I guess that's what Andre wanted. He comes to us prior to the fight and he says [Picerni speaks with a Hungarian accent], "Now at this point we have a big fight. But the depth of focus of the thrrree-D camerrra is so grrreat that we cannot use stunt doubles. You and Charrrlie must do the fight yourrrselves." I'm a young contract player, Charlie is a young, powerfully built guy, and we're both pretty handy, so we agree: "Okay, sure, we'll do it." And we start this fight: We're throwing axes at each other that go into the camera and we're throwing chairs, and finally Charlie lifts me up over his head and he slams me down on the floor of the museum. Oh, I landed on my tailbone, and the pain went through my back like you can't believe,I just laid there. So they took me to the hospital and X-rayed me, but everything was fine. I took the rest of the day off, and then we went back and continued the fight. Now Andre proceeds to have Charlie bouncing my head off the floor! I said, "Charlie -- you know -- kind of fake it a little bit!" But Charlie was like Jack Palance at the time, he was sort of really living the part, and he was bangin' my head on the floor!

I'm now rendered "unconscious," I'm a mess. Andre says, "Now, Charrrlie, you pick up Paul, and you carrry him over to the guillotine." It was a real, workable guillotine that they had borrowed from a French museum or some place, and it had a razor-sharp blade and a 35-pound block of wood attached above the blade to give it impetus as it came down. Andre says, "Charlie, you carrry Paul over to the guillotine and you put his head in place and you put a block of wood over the back of his neck." I go over and I check the guillotine, and they have two big spikes on each side of the blade to hold it in place so it won't fall. That was okay. We shoot that, and I'm in the guillotine now, "unconscious," and a block of wood is over the back of my neck. Andre says to Frank Lovejoy, "For the next shot, Frrrank, you come in with the other policemen. You see Buchinski! He's got Paul in the guillotine! You rrrush over, you grrrab Buchinski, you fight, you fight, you subdue Buchinski, the cops take Buchinski. Now you see Paul! You go over! You lift up the block of wood, you pull out Paul and, zoooom!, down come the blade! That's the next shot! Light it!" I say, "Andre -- excuse me. You're gonna shoot this in separate cuts, aren't you?" He says, "No, no, no! We do it in one take, one cut! Frrrank pulls you out, zoooom!, down come the blade!" Now, bear in mind I'm a young actor under contract.

I say, "Andre, I don't wanna intercede on your job as director, but how do you propose to do it in one take?" He indicates Red Turner, the prop man,Red was a little short guy, always had a little black stogie in his mouth and he always wore his hat 'cause he was bald. A cute little guy,I loved Red. Andre says, "Red Turner will sit on top of the guillotine; he will hold the block of wood between his legs; when Frank pull you out, Red will release the blade. And we see it all in one take!" I say, "Andre -- supposing Red drops the blade prematurely?" He says, "Only hurt for a second. Now don't t'ink about it, [it'll] make you nervous." And he walks away!

I go over to the assistant director Jimmy McMahon and I ask him, "Jimmy, is this a gag?" He says, "No, this is no gag. I just called Charlie Greenlaw in the production office and told him about it." I go out to Pev Marley, who was our cameraman, and I said, "Pev, is this a gag? Come on, level with me." He says, "No, no. That's the way he plans to shoot it." Oh, God --

I walk over to Andre, who is over on the side, and I tell him, "Andre, look, this isn't a case of getting hurt. This is a case of being beheaded if something goes wrong. Supposing Red Turner has a heart attack. Supposing there's an earthquake. Supposing something happens and he drops the blade prematurely." Again Andre says, "Only hurt you for a second. Don't worry about it, make yourself nervous." I say, "Andre, we can't do it like this,", and says [angrily], "We do it like this! Now, don't talk about it! Go 'way!"

So I go to my little portable dressing room on the set, which is 30, 40 feet away from the guillotine, and I'm thinking about it. Charlie Horvath, a stuntman, is on the set, and I ask him, "Charlie, would you this thing like he's outlined it?" He says, "No way." "Would you do it at all?" I ask him. He says, "The only way I would do it,and I would think about it 100 times,is if I had control over the release of the blade. But I wouldn't do it if I were you."

I go to several other people, Frank Lovejoy is there, and he says, "Don't do it, kid." Finally the set is lit and everybody is ready, and Andre said, "Places everybody!" Everybody takes their places, Buchinski takes his place by the guillotine, Frank Lovejoy and the cops take their places. There's kind of a silence on the set, because -- they know things aren't quite right [laughs]! And I just stand there on the steps of my little portable dressing room, and I don't move,I don't know what the hell to do. I had four kids, one on the way, and I don't want to disobey the director andlose my contract.

Q: But you don't want to lose your head either!

PAUL: No, no! So Andre says, "Come on, Paul! Put your head in the guillotine!" I just stand there. And finally I say, "I'm not gonna do it, Andre." He bellows, "Put your head in the guillotine, you cowarrrd!",he screams it out. There's a silence on the set. The hair stood up on the back of my neck,just -- stood up!,and I said, very quietly, almost like a Marlon Brando delivery, "If you call me a coward again, Andre -- I'll f--king kill you." The Corona Italian came out in me [laughs]! And I meant it!

Q: How far away are you two from each other?

PAUL: We're maybe 60 feet. And he screams, "This man is finished in this film! Send him home, McMahon! Send him home! Get rid of him! I don't want to see his face on this set again!" And -- that's it. Jimmy McMahon tells me, "I guess you better go home, Paul," so I go home. Now I sit home for like three days, and I don't what the hell's gonna happen,I've still got some major scenes left in the film!

Q: Including being rescued from the guillotine.

PAUL: Right. In the meantime, Charlie Greenlaw comes down on the set, Eric Stacy [the head of props] comes down, and they see the setup and they agree that it's kind of a dangerous situation. Jack Warner hears about it, and he tells Andre, "You go back and shoot that scene and shoot it properly, without endangering anybody's life or limb." Joe Breen comes to my house and he says, "Paul, Andre sent me here. He wants you to come back to work tomorrow, and he wants you to request that he shoot the scene exactly as he had it planned." I said, "What??" [Laughs] I ask him, "What do you think I should do, Joe?" He says, "I think you should say, ëUp your ass, Andre!'" "Well, that's my answer, not 'Up your ass,' but just say no, I won't do it that way."

MORE WITH PAUL PICERNI

Tom Weaver is the author of Science Fiction and Fantasy Film Flashbacks, Attack of the Monster Movie Makers and many others available from McFarland & Co.